Tuesday , 2 September 2014

02/21/13 According to the Scriptures Radio

Is Psalm 83 really a Bible Prophecy? Doug Hamp and co-host David Lehman put Psalm 83 to the test in this According to the Scriptures Radio broadcast. Unlike many of Bill’s interviews, whereby the host simply invites Bill to exposit upon his Psalm 83 hypothesis, this one made Salus sharpen his pencil. They say iron sharpens iron, and that is certainly the case in this show.

Are the Arabs listed in Psalm 83, identified in Ezekiel 38:5-6 as the many peoples with thee? Some of today’s top Bible prophecy teachers have struggled with the fact that Ezekiel may have intentionally omitted Israel’s Arab enemies from the Gog of Magog alliance.

After all, the hordes of Russia must travel over these Arab states in order to penetrate into Israel, why wouldn’t they be identified. It’s not like Ezekiel listed a nebulous coalition in Ezekiel 38. No, to the contrary he listed nine very specific populations; none of which share common borders with Israel today. And, Bill points out that Ezekiel references the Psalm 83 populations at least 89 times in his 48 chapters, but not once does he list them in Psalm 83. Bill asks, why not?

You decide if Psalm 83 describes a prophecy or a prayer. Also, find out what all the arguments are about Psalm 83.

The Millennium Chronicles
Bill Salhus Psalm 83 Putting Psalm 83 to the test War of Gog and Magog

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  • pradip

    the arabs don’t want peace they hate israel

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

    It is not Psalm 83 that has failed the test, it is the interpretation of Bill Salus that has failed, the fable he proposes in his books such as Isralestine is easily identified as proposterous.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Willis/1512961773 Brian Willis

    ezekiel 38 refers to america being invaded. “mountains of israel” is the united states. The very word “israel” means gods people. christians are gods people. a land of unwalled villages and peaceful unsuspecting people hardly drscibes the jews who are all conscripted and all on the lookout for battle. compare that to the average surburb in the usa with a white fence and badmitton net in the backyard and the women walking in parks with their babys in a stroller with absolutely no worries in the world. Ezekiel 38 is an atttack on unsuspecting america. its coming!

    • douglashamp

      Hi Brian, I guess you will have to tell God what Israel means – he seems to think it refers to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. “‘mountains of israel’ is the United States?” How do you defend such a thesis? I invite you to read my paper on the elect http://www.douglashamp.com/why-god-did-not-elect-calvinists-the-biblical-concept-of-election-never-means-predestined-to-salvation-and-commonly-is-a-reference-to-israel/

      Blessings,

      Doug

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Willis/1512961773 Brian Willis

        Doug i beg you to read a sermon from 1857 by a fella named F.E. Pitts http://www.firstchurchoftheinternet.org/studies/pitts.htm

        In it he describes america in prophecy and the coming invasion of america. it adds up as russia is building a land bridge from russia to alaska. and also a story recently of russians doing ariel drills of bombing alaska and california. I guess i cant convince you any further i hope you will just read that article i linked to.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Willis/1512961773 Brian Willis

          and also revelation 3:9 “I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars–I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.” the christian is the new jew. The antichrist coming is the anti “christ” he is against christians. hes not against jews they already despise jesus. The fight is right here in america

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

      That is an interesting interpretation of this prophecy you have Brian unfortunately the context reveals national Israel (Jewish State) as the focus!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

    The same use of “betach” identifies with carlessness, false confidence, and false security, another words, a Israel trusting in their military might and diplomacy that is what the Lord God inquires of Gog to notice.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

    If Psalm 83 played out as Bill Salus has interpreted, the problems associated with the Palestinians with terrorism, land negotations would expand 10 fold and drain Israel of all available resources and treasure to maintain security. This cleary identifies the need for divine intervention as was truly the intention of the prayer of Psalm 83 recorded by Asaph.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

    The “unwalled villages” identified by the Prophet Ezekiel refer to the modern Jewish Settements which are not walled, nor have bars fences, or gates! The Prophet Ezekiel identifes a clear distinction in later mentioning the cities of Israel as recorded in Ezekiel 39:9. Sorry Bll, your interpretation of Psalm 83 remains erroneous and many scholars are waking up to this reaity after the initial euphoria has subsided.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

    These scholars that support the “Isralestine” theory of interpretation never seem to grip the fact the it is not necessary to include the nations bordering Israel in the Gog/Magog coalition, for those mentioned by name are being dragged to the those bordering nations by the hand of the Lord God from afar. If these same scholars would read Ezekiel 38:21 then they would find all the nations of Psalm 83 included in the judgement of Ezekiel 38/39 by the hand of the Lord God as he will cause them to slay each other.

    “I will call for a sword against him thoughout all my mountains (borders of israel), every man’s sword shall be against his brother”-Ezekiel 38:21. In similar fashion to Judges 7:22 and 2 Chronicles 20:14-25 the Lord God will judge those enemies now bordering Israel and those from afar in unison as the Shiite and Sunni confict will come to a culmination in it’s final end and the Holy Name of the Lord God glorified among the nations.

    The support of Bill Salus for an exceedingly great army portrayed as the modern IDF interpreted by himself in Ezekiel 37:10 is proven false by the following verse that identifies this great army as the whole House of Israel or the entire nation not a distinct military unit. The belief also in an expansion of borders of Israel also clashes with Joel 3:2 which identifies that the Land of Israel will continue to be divided up until the time of the Battle of Armageddon.

    Ask yourself this question, “why would the same Lord God grant Israel a mighty victory over their surrounding enemies with an expansion of borders and increased wealth and then turn around and bring an even greater coalition against his people Israel for their rebellion as declared in Ezekiel 39:7″? This verse also identifies that Israel does not know the Lord God and profanes or pollutes his Holy Name. Clearly, this identifies the “Isralestine” theory as a fable when compared to the truth of the scriptures.

    • Peter Pellerin

      If you read the context of Ezekiel 38:21, you will see that “him” in this verse is referring back to “Gog” in verse 18. It is not referring to the nations surrounding Israel. This is speaking about Gog and the invading allies, not the nations around Israel. You have taken that out of its context.

      Your questions of why are pointless. We do not know all the why’s, nor can we know unless they are revealed.

      The fact is this… Bible prophecy teachers have ignored large portions of the prophetic word. We have had tunnel vision on Ezekiel 38/39 and the ragathering of Israel. There is so much more in the scripture concerning the nations around Israel. Bill is just trying to incorporate these into the equation. The scriptures must be fulfilled. All of them! Bill may not have all the sequencing correct… time will tell, but there is so much more to the prophets than Ezekiel 38/39.

      Blessings,

      Peter

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

        The Gog/Magog battle of Ezekiel 38/39 is the key that unlocks several prophetic events in scripture such as, the gathering of all Israel, the construction of the Third Temple, rapture of the Church, and the rise of the AntiChrist to global power. The Temple will rise on Mount Moriah in the aftermath of this battle for the earthquake of Ezekiel 38:19,20 will reduce the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa to rubble and dust to be swept away.
        Indeed the “him” makes reference to Gog, yet the “my mountains” makes reference to the borders of Israel and all the nations sharing this common border. The Gog/Magog coalition will arrive on the borders of Israel and the West and their present Sunni allies will witness them assemble and inquire of their intentions.
        The scriptures that Bill Salus invokes deal primarily with either the Tribulation or the Millennial reign and surely they will be fulfilled.

        • Peter Pellerin

          Rodney,

          There are 3 chapters (Ezek 35, 36, and 37) that come before Ezekiel 38-39. There is an emphasis on the ancient hatred of the Edomites in these chapters. It is possible that this ancient hatred will be taken care of prior to Ezekiel 38 and 39. It will also set the stage for Ezekiel 38-39. Ezekiel 38/39 is an important prophecy, but the fact is that it is not the emphasis of the prophets. It is only really mentioned by Ezekiel. There is a greater emphasis by Ezekiel and the rest of the prophets on Israel’s immediate neighbor’s.

          It is possible that some of the prophecies Bill highlights will happen during the tribulation. However, Bill’s thesis makes more sense to me.

          I think that we are naive to believe that Russia and here allies would be bold enough to invade Israel as the world is today. I think there are going to be dramatic changes on the world scene that embolden Russia to make this “final thrust South”. The Psalm 83 war and possibly the rapture (as well as the decline of America) could all play a part in this.

          Blessings,

          Peter

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

            With the Russian and Iranian presence in Syria challenging the plan of the West to install another Muslim Brotherhood regime, the West had no choice to back down or face a military altercation which would include China, Syria’s main trade partner. Ezekiel the Prophet also identifies that the West will see the Gog/Magog coalition assemble on the borders of Israel and will only launch a diplomatic protest inquiring of their intentions. Obviously this fits the present time as the West is not willing to engage militarily the combined might of such and offensive on their terms.

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  • Peter Pellerin

    Doug,

    Thanks for having Bill on. Great program! Just finished listening. I am about half way through the Psalm 83 book now, very timely!

    It was good to here you challenge Bill on some of his interpretations. Most of his interviewers do not do that :). I wish you had more than 2 hours. There are so many prophecies in the prophets that commentators just gloss over and say they were probably fulfilled in the past. The problem is, the events that we say fulfilled them just do not fit the language. There is so much more to learn.

    One fascinating thing that Bill highlights in his books that most scholars do not realize is that the Edomites were likely back in Israel after 70 AD. The Idumeans were conquered in 70 AD with Israel. After this war, Josephus points out that the Romans released 40,000 Idumeans. They likely went back to where they came from. They basically were “homesteading” in Israel throughout the centuries and make up a portion of the Palestinian population today.

    Ezek 36:5 therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a possession, with wholehearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.” ‘

    Notice who it was that gave themselves the land of Israel in Eze 36:5.

    Commentators were mistaken when they often state the Edomites were destroyed in their commentaries on Obadiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah. There are so many prophecies on the Edomites that are said to be fulfilled before the “day of the Lord”. I wish you guys had more time to discuss some of these scriptures. 2 hours was not enough :).

    Here is just one example:

    Obad1:15 “For the day of the LORD upon all the nations is near; As you have done, it shall be done to you; Your reprisal shall return upon your own head. Obad1:16 For as you drank on My holy mountain, So shall all the nations drink continually; Yes, they shall drink, and swallow, And they shall be as though they had never been. Obad1:17 “But on Mount Zion there shall be deliverance, And there shall be holiness; The house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

    Notice that the judgement that comes upon the Edomites seems to happen some time before the “day of the Lord”.when the nations drink of God’s wrath. They are being judged because they are trying to destroy Israel. Their “reprisal” is coming on their own head. Israel does not want a war… they want peace. Unfortunately, the nations around them have their hearts set on Israel’s destruction and this is going to come on back on them.

    Blessings,

    Peter

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodney-Dezarn/1115972582 Rodney Dezarn

      Read comments below, this will aid in discovering the truth.

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