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The Debate over the End: Paul Viggiano and Douglas Hamp Over How the World Ends

The Debate over the End: Paul Viggiano and Douglas Hamp over how the world ends from Branch Of Hope Church on Vimeo.

The Debate over the End: Pastor Paul Viggiano and Pastor Douglas Hamp over how the World Ends, with Brian Godawa. (branchofhope.org)

The End of the World has been a fascinating area of biblical study for Millennia. Recorded live at the, “It’s the End of the World as We Know It Conference” at Branch of Hope Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Torrance, CA, Pastor Paul Viggiano (Historic Post-Millennial) a Presbyterian and Pastor Douglas Hamp (Dispensational Pre-Millennial) of Calvary Chapel discuss in a rich and irenic fashion what the Bible says about how the world ends.

This is easily the most interesting debate of it’s kind in recent years and one of the most approachable for those seeking to understand this intensely interesting and confusing area of Christian concern.

Moderated by Brian Godawa before an audience of hundreds we’re sure you’ll enjoy this earnest discussion.

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2 comments

  1. Somehow, when the End of Times conference is going on, I doubt very much that we’ll be hearing a lot of “and uh’s” like we hear from our supposedly Harvard Law
    School graduated President, Obama. Even when high school kids debate it goes very smoothly; no “Uh’s” or “And Uh’s between words. How can that stupid Obama be that dumb. If you’re training to be a lawyer you better learn how to speak. And this guy is President????

  2. Dan Scott Whitcomb

    Very interesting debate about “end time” events. As for what a preterist, premillennialist, postmillennialist is I’m pretty clueless? One thing I think I understand pretty well is the evangel Paul taught in regards to the “one new man” in Christ Jesus, which leaves many questions and problems with the book of Revelation.

    First, why does the writer of Revelation speak of 7 spirits to the 7 ecclesias? Where in all of Scripture does it allude to each church assembly (ecclesia) in any given geographical area, having its own spirit or even seven spirits? Paul clearly speaks of keeping the “unity of the spirit, with the “tie of peace” (Eph. 4:3-4). Does the book of Revelation give anyone “peace?” Is it good news? Comparing “seven spirits” to the unity of spirit, Paul has much to say.

    1Cr 6:17 “But he that is joined unto the Lord is ONE SPIRIT.”

    1Cr 12:13 “For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT.”

    Eph 2:18 “For through him we both have access by ONE SPIRIT unto the Father.

    Eph 4:4 “There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in ONE HOPE OF YOUR CALLING.”

    Phl 1:27 “Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in ONE SPIRIT, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel.”

    Why does the writer of Revelation pays particular attention to maintaining Jewish identity? Paul himself forfiet his identity with his Jewish race, as being an Israelite, Hebrew of Hebrews, etc. (Phil. 3:4-10). All of these things he counted as “garbage” and “forfiet.” In fact he uses the word “forfiet” 3 times in these verses to put the point home. In II Timothy he writes that “Grateful am I to God to Whom I am offering divine service FROM (away from) my ancestors with a clear conscience.” II Tim. 1:2.

    Multiple times Paul tells us that in Christ their is “NO DISTINCTION between Jew and Greek (Hellenes), for the same One is Lord of ALL” (Rom. 10:12). He states again “For whoever are baptized into Christ, put on Christ in Whom there is NO JEW nor yet Greek, there is no slave (descendent of Esau), nor yet free (descenent of Jacob), there is no male and female, for you all are ONE in Christ Jesus” Gal. 3:27-29. This is repeated again and again by Paul.

    If the book of Revelation has any harmony with the revelation of the “one new man,” why, in the rebuke to the angel of the church of Philadelphia, is it of primary concern that there are those who say they are “Jews who are not.” Again, Paul makes it clear in his gospel that in Christ, there is no identification with such things? Just like today, those who want to be “Jewish” and identified with Israel do not understand what “in Christ” means.

    Here’s another red flag that should cause us to question the authenticity of the book of Revelation and whether it was breathed of the Holy Spirit, not another spirit. If Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven and Paul’s revelation was given to “complete the word of God” (Col. 1:25), why is the divergent book of Revelation supposedly written decades after the deaths of Peter and Paul and considered by most as the “end time” revelation of the scriptures? Why hasn’t Hebrews, which was written most likely by Paul and states in the introduction, “and again when He bringeth the first begotten into the habitable world,” been considered more appropriate as the “end-times” revelation?

    Here’s one more. Clearly Paul taught the church at Corinth regarding “idol sacrafices” (I Corinthians chapter 8). So, why is this an issue with the church of Pergamum who are supposedly said to be “holding My name and “not disowning My faith?”

    There are many questions as to the historical circumstances in which the book of Revelation was written and to the identity of the author, which much can be said. As I’ve shown briefly here, the content of the book indicates an authorship that was outside the understanding of the Pauline revelation. History shows an authorship well beyond the finality of Paul’s revelation written in his last days under house arrest in Rome. If this is the case, why do we pay so much attention to this book? Is this letter a divergent tool of the Adversary?

    For one to understand these considerations and comparisons between the two divergent gospels, many more questions must be asked.

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