According to the Scriptures with Doug Hamp and Dave Lehman

5 comments

Fred December 5, 2012 at 4:40 pm

Doug,

Do you see Isaiah Ch 26 (specifically vs 19-21) as referencing the rapture and tribulation? just something I’ve been chewing on…

Fred

Peter Pellerin December 4, 2012 at 7:28 pm

One other thing that is bothering me. Well, there are a lot of things.. but this is one I am thinking on now.

When I look at 1Th 5:2-4 it says…

1Thess5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
1Thess5:3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

In this verse it is just hard to imagine the world saying “peace and safety” all the way up to the last day of the tribulation just prior to the “day of the Lord” (if it is on the last day as you are suggesting and other passages seem to suggest).

In my mind, I always kind of connected the “peace and safety” with the events associated with the 1st seal. There would be chaos in the world after the rapture and maybe Ezekiel 38/39. The rider on the white horse comes and seems to have an supernatural ability to bring peace. The world breath’s a sigh of relief and says “peace and safety”. Then, however, the other seals begin to be opened, along with the trumpets, and the bowls. I always envisioned these judgements as the labor pains. They get increasingly severe and closer together as the period progresses.

I am going to have to think on this some more.

Doug Hamp December 5, 2012 at 2:45 pm

Hi Peter, I agree that there will be a time of peace preceding the 2nd coming (day of the Lord). I see Ezek 38/9 coming first which will be hailed as WW3. The AC comes on the scene with all the answers. He establishes peace and safety (New World Order). It lasts 3 1/2 years. AC goes in the temple then the “great” tribulation (time of Jacob’s trouble) starts. Lots of bad stuff happens. Just when the world is attempting to wipe out Israel forever Jesus comes back. That day will be a long day (24+ hours) per Hab 3:11. The day will be unlike any other. All of the horrors up to that point will pale in comparison. Blessings,

Peter Pellerin December 5, 2012 at 6:25 pm

Thanks for your reply.

Your day of the Lord/ New Heavens and New earth before the millennium has me rethinking a lot of things. Thanks for making me think!

I still lean in the direction that the church will not see Ezek 38/39 based on the phrase “My People” being used 3 times. I think the church being gone and the chaos in America will embolden Russia and her allies to attack Israel.

I also think we may see another major Arab Israeli war prior to Ezek 38/39 where Israel does battle with the “inner ring” of nations that are not listed in Ezek 38/39.

Ezek 38/39 only lists the other ring of nations and Russia. Those inner nations directly surrounding Israel are talked about elsewhere in Ezekiel, but mentioned in this battle. I lean toward the conclusions of Bill Salus on this… but I am not 100% convinced.. these nations could also be part Ezek 38/39…

Thanks for making me think…

Blessings,
Peter

Peter Pellerin December 4, 2012 at 6:51 pm

Doug,

I am enjoying the discussion so far. I am going to have to think about this “day of the Lord” thing so more. I have a bunch of references to go read carefully.

If you keep going, you might end up as a pre wrath guy :).

I am not a pre wrath guy.. but having the “day of the Lord” be near the end of that “great tribulation” is part of their view. I think they may place it somewhere in the last quartile of the 70th week.

I lean in the direction that the rapture will happen prior to the Ezekiel 38/39 battle, but I just lean that way… I am not sure about it. It is interesting how Israel is referred to as “My People” 3 times in this passage. This may be a hint that the church is no longer on the earth when you think about Hosea chapters 1-3.

I do tend to see Ezekiel 38/39 as a pre 70th week event though.