“Where’s the Beef?” and “Where’s the Verse?” [Cont.]

Chapter 1 of Reclaiming the rapture : “Where’s the Beef?” and “Where’s the Verse?” [Cont.]

Paul’s two letters to the Thessalonians contain Paul’s most definitive statements on the resurrection and the rapture or gathering, and these also appear on the list. Both First Thessalonians 1:10 and 5:9 speak of how we will be delivered from the “wrath to come.” The “wrath to come” is almost certainly related to either the tribulation or the second coming.
…and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thess. 1:10 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:9
Most Pre-Tribulation teachers maintain that the “wrath to come” is simply another name for the Great Tribulation period. However, when we compare Paul’s statements with John’s vision in the Book of
Revelation, and passages in Isaiah, we see that the wrath to come is specifically identified as the day of Jesus’ return. We will deal with the day of the Lord exhaustively in another chapter. For now, notice how the two texts below both have the following elements:

  1. Mountains and hills are radically moving out of their places.
  2. People going into the caves and holes.
  3. Proud and powerful people are humbled.
  4. They are both about God’s “day”.

These conditions are present on the day when God alone is exalted. The Antichrist will be blaspheming those in heaven for the latter half of the seven years of the tribulation; which means that God alone is not being exalted during that time. Likewise in Revelation, John records that the kings of the earth will admit they cannot stand because of the great day of His wrath. The parallel parts of the verses below are in bold to show that they are speaking of the same event.
Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth…said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev. 6:14, 16, 17 

Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust, from the terror of the LORD and the glory of His majesty. 

The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. Isa. 2:10-11 

For the day of the LORD of hosts shall come upon everything proud and lofty, upon everything lifted up– And it shall be brought low– Isa. 2:12 

Upon all the cedars of Lebanon that are high and lifted up, And upon all the oaks of Bashan; Isa. 2:13 

Upon all the high mountains, And upon all the hills that are lifted up; Isa. 2:14 

Upon every high tower, And upon every fortified wall; Isa. 2:15 They shall go into the holes of the rocks, And into the caves of the 

earth, from the terror of the LORD and the glory of His majesty, when He arises to shake the earth mightily. Isa. 2:19 

Therefore, once again the supposed evidence does not support the claim made by the Pre-Tribulation teachers that the Thessalonian letters point to a Pre-Tribulation rapture. The only way that First Thessalonians One and Five could be talking about a Pre-Tribulation rapture is if the wrath to come is synonymous with the tribulation itself. Even if our interpretation were wrong, the text does not imply a timing feature; it is, once again, inferred by Pre-Tribulation teachers. 

The next passage on their list is, likewise, completely devoid of anything to do with the timing of the rapture. Paul is sharing a little bit of history, but is completely silent on the tribulation, resurrection, or the rapture. 

For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us…1 Thess. 2:13 

For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 1 Thess. 2:14 

who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets… 

1 Thess. 2:15 

forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved…; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost. 1 Thess. 2:16 

Therefore we wanted to come to…but Satan hindered us. 1 Thess. 

2:18 (truncated for space) 

The classic passage for the Pre-Tribulation rapture is Paul’s statement to the Thessalonians about the resurrection. We agree that this is a very clear passage about the resurrection and rapture but a time marker for the pre-trib rapture is absent. In this passage, First Thessalonians 4:13-18, Paul wants to encourage the Thessalonians that their loved ones who have already died have not missed the resurrection. There appears to have been some teaching going around that the resurrection had already happened in conjunction with the resurrection of Jesus when graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, Matt. 27:52. Therefore, Paul exhorts his readers: 

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 1 Thess. 4:13 

It must be noted that the comfort he is bringing them is about the resurrection, and not the rapture, per se. The rapture is simply an add- on to the resurrection – it isn’t the main event. This is logical because for all those who have been martyred throughout the centuries, the thought of coming back to life would have brought them peace – and not whether some future group would be caught up to heaven. Notice, however, how Paul speaks of Jesus coming throughout this passage – it is speaking of the second coming and not a secret coming – a secret coming revealed only to believers. 

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. (1 Thess. 4:14) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. (1 Thess. 4:15) 

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thess. 4:16) 

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:17) 

For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. (1 Thess. 5:2) 

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23) 


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition. 2 Thess. 2:1-3 


Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers… Teach and urge these things. 1 Tim. 6:2 

to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Tim. 6:14 

I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 Tim 4:1 

Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing. 2 Tim. 4:8

Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13 

Not one of these verses say the Lord’s appearing will happen before the tribulation??? 

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Jas. 5:1 

So that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 1 Pet. 1:7 

Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober- minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 1 Pet. 1:13 

When the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 1 Pet. 5:4 


28 …abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming. 29 If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him. 3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 1 John 2:28-3:2 

Where is the Pre-Tribulation Rapture? 

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a SECOND TIME, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. Heb. 9:28 (emphasis added) 


Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord….8 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 9 Do not grumble…the Judge is standing at the door. Jas. 5:7-9 

Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. Jude 1:21 

So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 

Rev. 2:15 

Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. Rev. 3:10 


Did you see any Pre-Tribulation timing verses? Mystery solved: look for the resurrection and the “gathering”. 

The Bible is very clear about the timing of the resurrection and gathering; and they are specifically given to Israel, not to the “church.” 

Bible Study with Douglas Revelation 17 April 18 2013

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, (Rev 17:1) “with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” (Rev 17:2) So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. (Rev 17:3) The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. (Rev 17:4) And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (Rev 17:5) I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement. (Rev 17:6)

Bible Study With Douglas Revelation 2 (video) The Church of Ephesus

Douglas begins Revelation chapter 2 by examining who is in the Church of Ephesus. The conclusion may shock many because the Jewish people are the “we” in the book of Ephesus and the “you” are the gentiles. This demonstrates the Jewishness of the book of Revelation and how the book needs to be viewed through Jewish glasses first and foremost. Read the article: Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists to get a better understanding of who are the “elect” in Scripture.